Red Greece - Freedom of Religion: Iran vs Greece. What do you think about this situation ?

Freedom of Religion: Iran vs Greece. What do you think about this situation ?

Today I read in the newspaper that the thought of a Mosque opening in Athens caused a huge discussion in Greece recently. The mentioned building was originally built as a Mosque in 18th century and it is used as ceramic workshop today. More than 300.000 Muslim is living in Athens, the capital of Greece. There ISN’T even ONE Mosque in Athens and Is Greece a democratic European country ???? Less than 300.000 Christian is living in Tehran, the capital of Iran. I don’t know exactly how many but I personally saw 2 churches in Tehran during my visit few years ago. (There was a beautiful wedding in one of them : ) Shariah is the basis of legal code in Iran which sounds tooo scary to most of us and most of the Europeans criticize Iran as being anti-democratic, lack of freedom of religion There is a certain sympathy to Greece and antipathy to Iran in general. May be Greece is not as good as we think and/or Iran is not as bad as we think ?? What do you think about this situation ? P.S. to Iranians, please tell how many churches there are in Tehran and/or Iran if you know. Dear Greekgeek, I learned that those FREE places to worship are HOUSES that rented by Muslim groups and gatherings on religious holidays have been done in open empty lands, parks. I don’t think that being oppressed by Ottomans is an excuse.If so, being oppressed by crusades can be a very good execuse for Muslims to violate Christians rights. Moreover,Western/eastern historians agree that there was a certain freedom of religion in Ottoman period and even much better than Europe during those 4 centuries. Of course, this situation doesn’t make Iran democratic but for sure make Greece less democratic than most of us think. I wonder what would be the reaction of western world if Iran close the churches, cram Christians into houses and say that these houses are freely operated worship places. Sure, there can be discrimination etc in Ottoman.However,religous freedom in Ottomans wasn't free to be a Christian family but to be organized Christian/Jew/etc. community,having say and duties (like being embassy) in administration,own schools,worship places,foundations,etc.e.g the immigrant Jews are allowed and supported to build schools along with other rights in 1326.Ok,the whole system was not perfect but considering it relatively for those times,it is something. About Greece, Proselytism(converting) is banned in the constitution, The Archbishop swears in governments, his officers bless military missions abroad, the hulls of military ships know holy water before brine,each session of parliament begins with a dais-full of raven cloaked priests, the cross hangs in all courts,icons in police stations, Chirst in classrooms etc. Doesn't it sound to u like 'theocracy'? Sry, Greekgeek,I don’t think that it is that simple. I don't mean to criticize Greece but the hypocrisy Com'n Greekgeek, this picture is not simply 'endorsing an official religion'. I dont know the situation in Argentina, however, I don't think that it is same in England and Denmark. If so, than it means a bigger wetsren hypocrisy. On the other hand, I dont think that it is a good idea to take Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia as a yardstick. By the way, I don't mean any offence. Not having a Mosque was the first thing that I heard about the situation of religous freedom in Greece. Then I searched, learned and put here too. Thats all. Thank you for checking back again and again and put additional remarks. That made me search and learn more. Lisa, thank you for your answer. By Green VS Iran, I mean 'as compared to', not 'against'. Dear Green, please let us know if this is true or not " GREECE HAVE BEEN CONDEMNED BY THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS FOR A LACK OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM " " IN AN UNNOTICED AND TACIT FASHION, THEREFORE, WE ARE A KIND OF THEOCRACY " Iran AS COMPARED TO Greece make sense to me. This can be good study subject about our prejudices,our hypocrisy when the issue comes to our religion. This make me understand once again that theocracy and democracy cannot coexist, doesn't matter if it is a Christian or Islamic or Judaistic theocracy.

Public Comments

I am a greek woman who was married to an Iranian I have lived in greece and I can tell you that a mosque there is not likely. And i have to agree.
I love both places.I sure hope they build the Mosque.The people in both countries are nice ,friendly people ,it's the governments that suck.
I think that religion is the biggest load of rubbish ever invented and the sooner it is abolished the better.All of these centers of bigotry---churches,mosques etc-- should be turned into something useful or knocked down.
I live in Athens, and the matter is that this mosque is exactly bellow the Parthenon. I really cant imagine sbdy shoutting some verses bellow the Parthenon. There are places of worship that operate FREELY but sill, a mosque must be built. Christian population in Greece was severely oppressed by Muslim ottomans for 4 centuries, and this has left its markings.. now if u believe that Iran is more democratic than Greece.. OK whatever :) Didnt check ur remarks for some day, sorry. I dont know how much "democratic" is the image of greece to the rest of the world, at least compared to the one of Iran. Besides the term democracy is a term that has been manipulated and distorted to serve specific interests, but thats another story. Anyway, i suppose that by the term democracy we mean at least two fundamental things 1) freedom of speech and communication of ideas (including religious beliefes) 2) participation of the people in decisions regarding the state policy and the government I suppose for both things, u can find cases throughout the world, even in the most "democratic" countries that these two principals are not applied. Now, i dont understand what is the exact thing that constitutes the violation of the religious rights of the muslems in greece. The fact that their worship places are not big? The fact that the architecture of these places is not compatible to some islamic formats? The problem on this issue is not so much the "if" but the "where". Muslems are simply trying to have a big worship place in a central point of Athens, and that is a matter of controversy so far. But i dont think this is any kind of suppression of religious rights. The argument about the ottomans was not to justify anything, it was simply mentioned to describe the reasons of a specific parameter of the greek mentality. U can simply keep it in mind, or not keep it. About the religious freedom during the ottoman era, i suppose u refer to the fact that a family was "free" to be a christian family. But there many many cases of discriminations and brutal opression. First Elif's problem was the existance or not of a mosque in athens. Now her problem is that the greek state endorses an "official religion" like so many countries do (England, Argentina, Denmark, Afganistan, Saudi Arabia, IRAN) and so many others. I dont know what her next problem will be, but i can assure her that islam's problem (if it really has any) is defenately not greece. thats all and take care.
As we know, freedom or democracy was born for the first time at European countries. These countries, at that time, was placing freedom and solidarity at their top priority. They respect every country, every race, every religion which exist in this world. They voluntarily did that because they have suffer enough facing never ending wars. Since the crucified war or which they called "the Holly War" until the world war II. Which the main villains was Adolf Hitler with his perspective of superior race. But as the time goes by and they can enjoy a better life, which people in Moslem countries couldn`t have, the feeling of superiority grows again. Especially when a lot of Moslem people migrated to European countries. At the same time they`re afraid the Moslem migrated people will toke everything they already have which they got it with struggle. Because, they admit it or not, Moslem people are much smarter then they`re because they (the Moslems) have the basic source of knowledge which come from Allah, their God. Their main source (Al Quran) is guaranteed by Allah will always be true and that no one can make wrong with it. Even the MOslems have left their origin, there`s something they`ll never leave which is ISlam, their religion. People in European Countries, including Greece, are afraid to admit the truth that Iran people are not dangerous. What European people are afraid is actually their own fear since most of them doesn`t have religious background as IRan`s pepole do. PEople who become secular or atheis won`t have the calmness as people who still have their belief.
I will not even bother to read the answers to your question. I am 100% Greek. I believe that if we want to be called Greek we should permit a mosque opening in Athens. Greece is supposed to be a democratic countries and everybody is free to believe what he wants. I am really sorry that our narrow minded church makes such a fuss about it. Greece was always a good friend to the Arabic nations, and i don't believe that Iran has anything to do in this conflict for the mosque. I don't find an Iran VS Greece subject here. I only find a subject narrow minded Greeks VS human right to religion. In Athens you can find any type of churches even a boudist temple, why not one more mosque?
The whole matter is a matter of politics and greek orthodox priests, it is not the matter of greek people. And mainly it is a matter of money. Don't bother to think that greeks are xenophobic or something like that. Priests don't want to lose money. That's all.
im iranian boy. we have freedom of religion in our country. we respect all. especially to christians. we like them and other religions like jewish and...
I can't understand the title Greece Vs Iran. In Greece government and church (or religion) are not similar. maybe you have to look somewhere else! Greek's even from Byzantine years had religious tolerance. Do you know that orthodox Christians are more than 90% in Greece and even that there are many Mosques all over the country and especially at the places it has Greek Muslims? The particular Mosque is in the Ancient Market of Athens and the ottomans built it over the ruins of ancient Greek buildings. It is inside an archaeological area! It seems ironic to tell us that 4 centuries under Ottoman occupation in Greece was better than the rest free Europe. Read history and see your self where was Greek civilization 1400 and where was the rest Europe and where was at 1800! Can you tell me why the biggest orthodox church in Istanbul is a Museum and not a church? I don't know about Iran but I can't understand how you discover a problem in Greece. Tell us where are you from and maybe we can extract a conclusion
I am a Greek, Brought up in Athens and I can most certainly testify that Greek schooling and general attitude during the 80's was against the ottomans and the muslims in General. Not many Greeks I know are particularly friendly towards muslims. This is normal and natural. Greece is the natural border of christian europe and has defended the continent from muslim invasions for eons. Hellenic nationals had to stick together for many years and cope with a lot of misery. It was because of xenophobia, racism and a sense of superiority that Greece and its people survived as a nation through the wars and the attempted systematic extermination of our ideals and genetic and cultural identity. It was Kisinger him self that famously said that the 'Greeks are difficult to tame and we shall dilute the glue that holds them together'. What people need to realise is that Iran and Greece has something very very very much in common they are both pelasgian tribes of the original white race. Yes Iranians are perhaps the most true representations of ARIAN. What we trully have in common is that our true civilisation has been supressed by two oppresive types of religion Christianity and Islam. The brightest Iranian and Hellenic minds have been enslaved with dogmatic oppressive thought suppresing cultural viruses - religion. The rulers of this planet are SOO HAPPY when pelasgian populations fight with each other as it guarantees their control. GROW UP, OPEN YOUR MIND AND WAKE UP !